The original message as posted by Deb on the vic_rally egroup

Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 7:10am Subject: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh If any body out there could help me. I am basically new to rallying, and have one problem....I have always got travel sick since I was a kid. I need remedies quick, before the suspension and harnesses are changed for my discomfort. The last rally I came really, really, really close, and as I don't wish to disappoint my driver ( and boyfriend who I have to live things down with )I need help!!!! Ta..... Deb (one sick puppy)

The resulting flood of replies

From: Tony Cooper Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 9:58pm Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Deb, As someone who has suffered from car sickness on odd occasions, I follow these rules. 1. Never compete on an empty stomach, 2. Drink regularly. 3. I take Avil (hay fever) tablets. Others take Kwells etc, but I prefer these, though they do make some people very drowsy. 4. Try to keep as cool as you can. Even if its freezing when you start, it WILL get bloody hot in the car and you can't take a jumper etc off until you finish the stage, so carry a coat or warm clothing with you, but put it on only when you feel cold, or finish. Hope this helps. Tony Cooper

From: Roslyn Martin Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 10:04pm Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh A couple of tricks that seem to work to reduce the possibility of the dreaded yawn I've found over the years, with a number of sick navs, are, mount a foot rest, so you get you knees higher, where you rest you notes, lay your seat back fractionaly and this tends to lift your eyes up and you don't seem to look down as much. Mount your trip meter high for same reasons. Plenty of fresh air in the car to the point of frost bite, and finally watch you diet prior to the event even days before. Some use a motion sickness tablet that they begin a day before the flag drops. Poor Roslyn only gets dry toast and fluid on rally day. Hope this helps Ian Martin

From: Geoff Byron Date: Mon Aug 21, 2000 11:04pm Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Deb I have been navigating for a while now. I can get sick on a slow, no fear involved course check. Food or no food prior makes no difference. Air/cold air, head up, water etc holds it off but at the end of the day makes little difference. For navigation events I use over-the-counter medications that work fine for six hours at a time. They have side effects - like going to sleep on long transports - but keep the stomach under control. Contact me off-group if interested and can give exact details. Geoff Byron

Subject: Re: [vic_rally] help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:55:12 +1000   Deb, Tony Coopers responses are all good. But another thing worth trying are morning sickness tablets which attack the inner ear problems associated with morning sickness as well as car sickness and wooziness. I got them from a Dr but you may be able to get them over the counter at the chemists. Golly

Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:27am Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Deb My name is Peter Baker and I Co Drive here in Qld. I have found that if I have two or three Barley Sugars over say two hours before the event start it helps me. Cheers and good luck Peter

From: Laidlay, Mark Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 8:34am Subject: RE: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Deb, At the start of most stages I put a steam roller or similar in my mouth, barley sugar would be good. It's always kept my stomach under control for more than 120 events. Mark Laidlay

From: Michael Cains Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 3:10pm Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Deb, If there hasn't been enough on this enthralling subject here's my two bob's worth. (Drivers can tune out now, but this is a very interesting topic to the most important member of the crew!) My thoughts on chuck containment: 1. A good meal in the morning - something that settles in the stomach like porridge. Nothing greasy during the day (but I've seen others who do). 2. A good seat and harness. This is very important. They must stop you sloshing around with good kidney and back support. 3. Keep reference to what's around you - look up as much as possible. I think motion sickness is caused by not having a frame of reference that accords with the movement you are being subjected to. 4. On the rare occaisions I have thrown up (excluding the one with the hangover) I have had barley sugar, pepermints, ginger etc in my mouth at the time! Quells are good in extreem cases but if the adrenoline stips then drowsiness takes over. 5. If you get sick driving to the local milk bar then it is likely that you are going to be sick when rallying and you will need to get a new boyfriend or he'll have to get a new nav. Also, what works for some doesn't necessarly work for others, but now at least you have a few things to try! Michael

From: Mike Morris Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 3:39pm Subject: Re: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh One thing I think noone has mentioned is petrol and exhaust fumes. I would hazard a guess and say that the majority of car sickness is caused because most rally cars dont have enough sealing and thought put into eliminating spilt petrol vapour and exhaust coming into the cabin of the car. So if you've gone for a run in your new rally chariot and it stinks inside (especially after a refuel), have a word in the team manager's ear and tell him you're not getting back in until its fixed!!!! Rallying definitely isn't a comfortable sport, but it doesn't have to be torture either!!! Mike

From: Yum Cha Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 5:31pm Subject: Re: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Aside from diet/fumes/lollies etc, you can condition your motion senses, like people who work on ships and don't get sea-sick. The best way to condition yourself of course is to get someone to drive you and read in the passenger seat. But when you are at home, stand in an open area, and spin around until you just start getting dizzy and then STOP, and do it the other way until you just start feeling dizzly (do it only once or twice each way). If you do this 1 minute exercise twice a day for a week you will find your body won't get as dissoriented and hence sick. Just my two bobs worth. Karl

From: Michael Cains Date: Tue Aug 22, 2000 6:04pm Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Wow, this is incredible! Has anyone tried hypnosis or pschotherapy. Once we have resolved this, how do we make drivers do as they are told? Just thought I'd ask.... it's getting late. I better go home and get a life! MC

Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:10:44 -0000   Hi Deb, well i wish i had the answer for you but i don't think it's that easy it's different for everybody. But i will gladly share a few trade secrets with you. 1) For me travel sickness tablets made it worse, because they made me feel so tired i couldn't concentrate properly and i would feel so atigued i felt sick (i could fall asleep on a transport stage). 2) Start eating low fat / light meals a couple of days before the event. 3) On the day make sure you keep eating light food e.g apples, dry biscuts, drink lots of water etc 4) Stay as cool as possible e.g window down (this has it's advantages if you are going to be crook) 5) Pace noted events are good value (i think this is because you are looking out the front more than blind rallies). 6) One thing that I am going to try next season is a RIST BAND that you can buy from the chemist, it works on acupuncture pressure points, it's drug free and it worked really well with my wife who suffered from morning sickness untill we found out about the RIST BANDS (dont worry there's no needles). 7) Stay calm and remember "PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT", it does get better.   Chris Tait

From: Brian Fleming Date: Wed Aug 23, 2000 3:29pm Subject: Car Sickness After reading of the "Conditioning" system, I had a rush of "Couch Potato Syndrome" What came to the inner eye was a vision of a skater at the Winter Olympics some years back - Scotty Hamilton is the name in memory - who would turn himself into a spinning blur. SO - do gymnasts, ballet dancers, and ice skaters suffer from motion sickness? Brian Fleming

From: Kylie T Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 4:03am Subject: Re: Travel Sickness I don't know if I can help here much as I am one of the lucky ones who don't suffer :-) (sorry to all those who instantly hate me for that!!!) I do read in cars all the time, hilly, bumpy, windy roads - no nausea. I have to eat before a rally or I do feel sick! Usually a sausage in bread at the start location. Steve, on the other hand, eats nothing after breakfast and takes 1/2 a kwell before the event and the other 1/2 at the service point. If you are using things like kwells it's a good idea to experiment with how much you need to get the balance between nausea and sleepiness. I have also heard of an acu-pressure band that puts pressure on a spot on your wrist that is supposed to help??? Anyone used it? One last thing to remember is that I have been told that drivers who tend to be on/off the throttle all the time are more prone to induce illness so if all else fails blame your driver!!! :-) Kylie

From: Downs, John Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 10:22am Subject: RE: Travel Sickness As a driver who's never had a nav throw up in the car, I think there's a lot to be said for Kylie's last point (until someone vomits in my car, then it'll be complete garbage!!!). Being smooth saves tyres, is easier on the car and MAY also keep the inside of you car cleaner!!! ;) Cheers John Downs

From: Mike Mitchell Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 1:17pm Subject: Re: Travel Sickness Back in the good ole days (when we probably travelled slower: but the cars were more rustic) Kwells seemed to have been the go. I recall some people using some kind of a patch behind the ear also. Although I was fortunate enough not to have been bothered by the affliction of travel-sickness, I firmly believe that having one's head down reading a map or itinery wouldn't help at all. I think travel sickness is caused by inbalances of the inner ear or something like that. What's in your stomach is only what will be regurgitated, not the cause of it. I navigated on a couple of occassions for Sydney journo Barry Lake and he became car-sick on a regular basis. He tried hypnotherapy but the result was not overly successful. Mind you, back in halcyon days of Bob Watson winning ARC and VRC titles in his rotten little Renaults, he had Andy Chamman navigating for him for a couple of years and Andy would hardly complete a rally without a bout of car-sickness. So I guess it is a matter of how much pain one can endure. We (the navigators of that era) didn't help Andy much, as we used to try to phsyc him "off-colour" by intentionally buying large parcels of greasy chips - smothered in viniger - and offering him some at evry meal break. He never accepted our offerings strangely enough. Mike Mitchell

A note of thanx from Deb.............

Date: Thu Aug 24, 2000 11:30pm Subject: Thanx Guys! Thanx to all those people who replied and offered suggestions for my little, but important problem of the dreaded yawns. I can honestly say I'll save the morning sickness tablets to last, to prevent unnecessary worrying from a snoopy crew. I think I'll combine a little of everything, good diet, quells, higher footrest and concentrate on looking out the car more often. If all else fails I'll just get a new boyfriend , with a different hobby. Thanx again and everything was taken into account, so I'll keep you posted for what works and what didn't. Ta ...One hopefully not so sick puppy.....Deb!!?!

................But still they keep rolling in!!?!

From: Caroline van der Mey Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 00:20am Subject: Re: help needed / Car Sickness...... Blurgh Deb I am a naturopath (my husband is a co-driver) and I wrote an article for ARN last year - it was the Rally Oz issue which I think was November, and the WA WRX club magazine has also in their July/August issue printed this article. Some key things were - Make sure you eat breakfast, but do not make it heavy or oily. Make sure you are not sleep deprived. Eat regular small snacks - but not too much sugar. Avoid soft drink Avoid alcohol for a few days before - you can make up for this later if you make it through, and celebrate in style. Ginger tablets help some people. Avoid cigarette smoke as much as you can - especially if you are a non-smoker. Make sure you look up frequently - as bending down over a book all the time will not help. I also make an anti-travel sickness blend, trialled by some WA co-drivers which is reasonable in price and can be posted to you. If you or anyone else would like a copy of my article or more details you may contact me off the list - naturaly@vianet.net.au Regards Caroline van der Mey

From: Nick Wright Date: Fri Aug 25, 2000 12:49pm Subject: Car Sickness A word from Victoria's Champion Chucker. I have been navigating for more than thirty years and have progressively suffered more and more from the dreaded motion sickness. In recent years it happens several times every event. I am fortunate that it does not affect my concentration, just my stomach, I don't feel ill but just lose my lunch - drivers get used to the pointing finger while my head is out the window, but with one eye on the tripmeter. Drivers are not too keen on intercoms as the sound effects can affect their concentration. I have tried everything from over the counter tablets to prescribed medications, alternative medicines, pressure bands, you name it.Nothing works for long. Daylight is not as bad as night-time, so the idea of focussing into the distance may be useful. I had begun to think that the increased level of sickness was to do with growing older and less fit, with deteriorating eyesight. Certainly these are issues that should be considered as well as diet and comfort in the car. Last weekend, I competed in the Rallye of Mt Gambier Trial with no hint of sickness whatsoever. This event managed to fit 110 Km competitive into a pine plantation that was just 8 Km by 6 Km. It achieved this because there was a grid of "roads" 200 metres apart. This made the event quite challenging with the need to concentrate all the time to be sure where you were. There was no time to do anything but navigate, I didn't have time to be sick, so I wasn't! The trouble with modern rallies is that there nothing for the navigator to do. If you have time to sit back and think about things other than the job in hand, you will get sick. My recommendation, choose events that really need a navigator. If the event is bunted and arrowed, the driver can do it alone, so let him/her. If they want to race, do it on a race track. The above is not entirely tongue-in-cheek. As far as avoiding motion sickness is concerned, the issue of working at your job to the exclusion of all other issues helps most. If you want to do it professionally, you will have to concentrate fully on the job in hand (whether reading a map or pace notes). To do this you will need to be as fit as any other athlete, watch your diet and lifestyle all the time, and avoid drugs (not sure if Avil, Kwells, etc contain banned substances) - no drinking or smoking. Look at the top co-drivers in WRC telecasts, mostly they are extremely fit and clean-living and work full time at their co-driving job. As with any sport, the further from the top you are, the more other priorities intervene. The less committed you are, the less effective you will be. Remember it is a team sport and both members of the team should be equally committed. If the navigator/co-driver prefers to party all night while the driver gets a good night's sleep before an event, there is clearly an imbalance of commitment. If the team works together to the same level of commitment, the navigator/co-driver will perform at a level acceptable to the driver if the driver performs at a level acceptable to the navigator/co-driver and vice versa. Others have said "get the driver to slow down to a speed you can cope with". I'll add that if he/she won't they are either being unreasonable or require more commitment than you are prepared to give. One of you will have to change or a change of crew will have to happen. One of the hardest steps in rallying is getting started. There are few events to practise in. You need to train your body to cope with the specialised demands of a navigator/co-driver, but the driver has now got the car prepared and wants to be ARC champion (or VCRS novice champ or whatever). Practise reading maps or notes in the car in an unpressured situation. Read the street directory as you go to the shops or to the cinema. Enter a few social-type car club treasure hunts, touring assemblies etc. where there is little need to read at speed and you can stop if you need without it being a drama. Once you can cope with the low pressure challenge, work your way up. Again try to chose events for which the results don't really matter and get a commitment from your driver that he/she is prepared to help you in the training. After all, the driver probably spent months preparing the car, so shouldn't expect you to perform perfectly with no training. If the car has a problem, the driver is usually prepared to nurse it to the finish, he/she should be prepared to do the same for the other member of the team. Experiment with different pills and different eating and sleeping habits until you get it right. Only then should the team consider stepping up to a higher level with more pressure and the need for more commitment all round. I guess what I'm saying is that there is no perfect answer to the motion sickness problem, but remember that good navigators and co-drivers are few and far between. It is up to the drivers to nurture potential navigators/co-drivers so that they perform at their best. If your stomach fails, it is just part of the whole package that has failed, like a flat tyre or a blown engine or an "off". The whole team must work to minimise the likelihood of it happening, not try to apportion blame. Hang in there and enjoy the sport for what it is. Compete at a level you are comfortable with and you will enjoy it and do well. Nick Wright

................and just when we thought it was all over.............

Thanks MC !!